[mdlug] Curious - Phone Tapping Tech

[Aaron Kulkis]

Michael Mol wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 8:19 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Michael Mol wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 7:02 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Michael Mol wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Michael Mol wrote:
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>>>> You couldn't detect a signal even if it was only 1 copper pair.
>>>>>> Don't believe me?  Try it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hall effect sensors would do it easily, in the single-pair case. And
>>>>> if that isn't enough, you could use the signal propagation detection
>>>>> and lock-on technique I wrote about last week to do it. I came up with
>>>>> that in response to the 'thermal noise' encryption thing that was
>>>>> making the rounds last week. It requires three measuring points, and
>>>>> then applies triangulation in a time+distance space to figure out
>>>>> where a signal is coming from and when, and uses that to lock on for
>>>>> pass/block filtering purposes. The hardest part is timecode
>>>>> synchronization between the three measuring points.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's significantly more sophisticated, and entirely different
>>>> geometry than wrapping a wire around a bundle of cables, which
>>>> is what Robert asked about.
>>>
>>> It sounded to me like Robert was asking a question about a real-world
>>> situation where someone was claiming to be able to sniff signal. I was
>>> giving real-world answers. You challenged me on the case of a single
>>> pair. I described how it could be done. I then extended into an
>>> explanation of how one could do it with far more difficult
>>> measurements.
>>>
>>> And you tell me my response to you is inapplicable to a misquote of
>>> Robert's case. Perhaps it is...but I wasn't responding to him, there;
>>> I was responding to you.
>>>
>>> My first response to Robert sums up my opinion of the situation. Ask
>>> for a demonstration, control the setup; if the guy's a charlatan,
>>> he'll back out. If he's not, he's either going to demo and succeed (in
>>> which case there's something interesting there), or he's going to demo
>>> and be embarrassed. The worst that could happen is a waste of time and
>>> some bruised egos.
>>>
>>> If you want to get _really_ sophisticated, take this "band" the guy
>>> was talking about, and build it out of a line of hall effect sensors.
>>> Wrap it around the bundle of cable, and you have something that's
>>> effectively a passive MRI; you've got measurements at the edge of a 2D
>>> space sufficient to build a cross-sectional map of currents going back
>>> and forth within the circle via triangulation. But now we're talking
>>> about something extraordinarily expensive.
>>
>> Precisely.
>>
>> The answer to Robert's original question...is there anything
>> like what Hollywood portrays to tap a phone cable.. .no
> 
> I don't even know how you see Hollywood portraying phone taps. I've
> seen it portrayed as attaching butt sets, I've seen it portrayed as
> attaching a voice recorder at the dmarc, and I've seen it not
> portrayed at all--it all happens offscreen. I don't think I've ever
> even seen inductive coupling portrayed in Hollywood, though it's
> definitely possible.
> 
> There was a story a couple years back about an American sub that'd
> squat on a Russian underseas communications cable. I don't know the
> exact technique they used to pick up the signal in that copper, but I
> doubt they risked exposing it to seawater.


A few years ago, I read a book about the post-WW2 US submarine service.

With no more commerce raiding going on, they were looking for a mission,
and their low mission profile is perfectly suited for working with the
espionage and clandestine operations communities.  The device you're
talking about, there were two of them.  One was on an undersea cable
connecting the Soviet Navy's Pacific Fleet base at the southern end
of the Kamchatka Peninsula to the mainland by going on the sea floor
under the bay.  The other one was installed on a similar cable in the
White Sea area.  Both were eventually found by the Soviets, and one
of them is on display in a museum.

According to the book's author, the device took several hours to
install.  The book has a copy of a photo of one of the devices
in the museum.  It appears that it was painstakingly spliced into
the cable.  Tape recording devices were inside, and divers would
have to visit regularly to change the tapes.  A fault with one of
the devices is what lead to the first one being discovered and
removed.

If I can remember the name of the book, I'll post it in this thread.


> 
>>
>> On the other hand, there ARE bugs similar what were portrayed
>> in the movie "Enemy of the State"... looking very similar to
>> the props used in the movie (which I believe were just very
>> large capacitors).
> 
> As it happens, I haven't seen that one.
> 
>>
>> Do a google search:  Theremin Moscow Embassy Bug
>>
>> Amazingingly simple and no power supply required -- the other
>> half of the system activates powers the bug with radio waves
>> which are also used as a carrier for the bug's own broadcast.
> 
> So, effectively how RFID chips operate; the chip modulates its
> reflection of the incoming RF.
>