[mdlug] Future presentations.

[Garry Stahl]

First, why all the shouting?  It makes you come across argumentative. 
  This is not condiuctive to a discussion.


> I whole-heartedly *disagree* with the premise of this message. I'm not 
> a newbie, but I was a newbie, and I interact with a lot of newbies. My 
> single most emphatic bit of advice of newbies is: SLOW DOWN! Mostly I 
> watch newbies flail about in veritable panic and throw solutions at 
> problems in a terribly ineffective manner [like 
> reinstall-reinstall-reinstall, install-more-packages, etc...]. There 
> is nothing specific to LINUX or IT about this; slow and methodical 
> wins the race [in any problem domain]. Stop and *think* about a 
> problem, start from the bottom and work up [is the cable plugged in, 
> is the link light on, do I have an IP address, do I have a gateway, 
> can I ping the gateway...] Even after 20+ years of sys/net-admin I... 
> start at the bottom and methodically work up. It works. Lunging to a 
> *theoretical* source of a problem prior to gathering all the 
> information is a recipe for failure [again: in any problem domain]. 
> Slow down. Get a cup of coffee. Think. And not only will you be able 
> to solve more problems you will also learn a great deal more from the 
> process. 

Well it helps if you have the level fo computer knowledge to know that 
such things as IP addresses exist.  See, you said yourself, 20+ years as 
as system administrator.  That colors your perception of what should be, 
but frequently is not general knowledge.  All this is obvious to you. 
  To Mr Average computer user "ping" is a golf club.

Now, slow down is good advice.  Most people, computer users or not have 
poor problem solving skills.  I call it do the stupid stuff first.  That 
is why tech support hates to hear from me.  I'm through the level one 
script before they start reading.

Not everyone is so gifted.  Personally I would never let system 
administrator teach anything.  You paragraph above is exactly why. You 
know to start at the bottom and work up.  One has to know where the 
bottom is..  It isn't universal knowledge.  It should be, but guess 
what?  Troubleshooting, like critical thinking is emphatically not 
taught in the public schools.  You have had 20 years to correct that.

My wife is offering to let you demonstrate your method.  She knows a 
little Linux, but she does understand training.  I will also run my 
method past my friend Ron.  A programer, college professor, and teacher 
for some 30 years.  Formulate your method, we'll see which he likes.

> This sounds like an IRC conversation. Newbies have no business asking
> questions in IRC channels.  IRC channels are a *BAD* source of
> information.
>
> Go where the Gurus are - the mail lists - and don't say "I have a
> dillywhop problem".  If you say that you *DESERVE* an off-the-cuff
> stupid response.  Say "I have dillywhop problem and I am running version
> XYZ of the relation application on a 64 bit whuzit-distro.  Previously
> this did/did-not work when running version ABC.  I don't believe I have
> changed anything relevant"


I have seen exactly that sort of thing happen in this mailing list.  It 
is not relegated to IRC channels.  And please forgive me for not fully 
writing out the whole theoretical exercise.  It was intended to be a 
dramatic generalization, not an exact example..

I'm not going to refute this point by point as I don't think you 
actually understood what I wrote, if anything your rebuttal was a proof 
of concept to exactly what am saying.   Agian my wife's reaction (Not a 
computer professional) is that if you came off to her coming to you with 
a problem as you did here, she would drop the whiole idea of Linix on 
the spot.   I'm forwarding your reply to her,



-- Garry AKA --Phoenix-- Rising above the Flames. Politically I have 
given up on being an anything-arian. I am for accountability and nothing 
else. Hold the government, in specific the office holders, elected or 
appointed, accountable for all actions taken in office. Authority must 
be granted grudgingly and reluctantly. When it is abused it must be 
snatched away at once. Be it a minimum wage screener at the TSA or the 
President of the United States.
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org