[mdlug] ummm..... Re: Router - now power.

[Rich Elswick]

A bit of a rant on an off Subject line item.

I have been deleting this inaptly named thread, since I assumed it was about
something I didn't even really care about.  However, I am familiar with the
area of discussion now, since I work at one of those named companies
producing the batteries.

Overall, you are correct, the technologies for hybrid systems have been in
place for sometime, however, the level of technology to meet the demands of
a mobile hybrid system have not been, at least not in robust high volume
manufacturing type environment, which exists for the automotive market.
Neither has the demand been there, even accounting for your so called
Hollywood crowd.  However, once gas went past $2 a gallon, demand picked
up.  When it reached $3, there was a howling crowd waiting for hybrids.
When it approached $4, i.e. last summer as in 2008, you could sell a 2001
Honda Insight for $21,000, which is what is sold for NEW!  Now, here we are
approaching $3 again, but the demand isn't as big.  Why is that?  Is it the
economy, so no one wants to pay the premium for a hybrid?  I would argue the
change of 25% in the price of gas verse the change of 100% in the price of
gas has a bit to do with it.

As to Toyota making money or losing, as I understand it, they need to
produce 200k Priuses in a year to make a profit, of course, more
speculation.  Every new product launch is the same fashion, bet that x
number is sold before profit is generated, but you have to produce some to
get in the game.  Panasonic batteries have not been without fault either,
since the Prius (hence the NiMH batteries in them) were sold for production
in 1998 in Japan.  Also I understand Toyota didn't make a profit on those
cars until 2006, which was when it has sold 200k+ cars I believe.  As to you
the Japanese government subsidizing the Prius... come on now... the US
government is subsidizing battery companies here to.  Get over that part
please.

As to comparing a Malibu verse a Prius, well, that is like saying a V6
sports car can be compared to a V8 sports car.  # of NiMH (12.6 volt)
modules in a Malibu = 6.  # of NiMH (6 volt) modules in a Prius = ~30.

Cheers,

Rich Elswick
Cobasys



On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Robert Adkins wrote:
> >>>     That's untrue.
> >>>
> >>>     In the US, the entire hybrid system (which includes the hybrid
> >>> battery pack) is warrantied for 8 years/100,000 miles. I
> >> highly doubt
> >>> that such a warranty would be provided if they had to be
> >> replaced every 2 years.
> >>>     Perhaps that is what happens on the cars that are
> >> modified to be
> >>> Plug-In Hybrids and thus run off the battery almost
> >> exclusively. That
> >>> obviously voids the warranty in the first place and places
> >> a different
> >>> set of demands on the batteries than is designed into them
> >> in the first place.
> >> But the Pious is sold at a loss, to buy the goodwill of the
> >> noisesome Hollywood whiner crowd.
> >
> >       Can you prove this?
> >
>
> With direct statements from the company, No.
>
> But why can't any other auto manufacturer on the planet
> (including Japanese and Korean competitors with much
> lower legacy pension and labor costs) produce a competing
> vehicle in the same price range?
>
> Barring the employment of tireless and goodwilled magic
> elves who don't demand to be paid, the only logical conclusion
> is that Toyota is taking a loss on all of this.
>
> It's not like any of this is new technology.
> Hydrocarbon engine-electric motor hybrid drive has
> been used by navies around the world for over 100 years.
> (submarines), and the individual components (diesel
> or batteries, DC motors, gasoline engines, differentials
> being used in dual-input, single-output mode are neither
> novel, nor nor poorly understood technology -- in fact,
> they are all very mature -- the oldest and most mature
> of them all being batteries, being close to 200 years
> old now.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Rich Elswick