[mdlug] Opinions - Should this be the core of my next desktop

Dan Pritts danno at umich.edu
Tue Sep 13 10:15:52 EDT 2011 

It talked all about its raid0 config with multiple sandforce controllers.  sandforce
is a flash controller.

I didn't see anything about it being DRAM based.

if it *were* DRAM based then yes, clearly the only way it can perform up to its potential
is via PCIe or some other mondo-speed interconnect (thunderbolt maybe, but that's 
only 10Gbps i think).  

On Sep 12, 2011, at 1:42 PM, Robert Adkins II wrote:

> Hrmm... You know, I'm beginning to think that this particular drive might
> actually be using Flash RAM, but is doing a better job of "hiding" that fact
> by being one of the most affordable PCI-e SSD drives.
> 
> Some of the others I have seen which clearly state DRAM are also priced
> inordinately higher in price.
> 
> This is obviously more complicated that I was inititally reading.
> 
> -Rob
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Robert Adkins II
>> Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 1:18 PM
>> To: 'MDLUG's Main discussion list'
>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Opinions - Should this be the core of my 
>> next desktop
>> 
>> 
>> I understand that "independent tests" have shown that 6Gbps 
>> is just the max that is inititally received on SATA with a 
>> standard SSD, but will often drop down to 4 or even 3Gbps for 
>> sustained throughput. Allegedly, this device can maintain a 
>> higher level of throughput, that blows away the best of SSDs. 
>> (On their Workstation versions, the throughput DOUBLEs at 
>> 1500Mbps for reads and 1220Mbps for writes, that's something 
>> that SATA can't hope to match anytime soon, these are almost 
>> to a little over twice the price of the Enthusiast
>> hardware.)
>> 
>> Yes, SSD manufacturers have engineered to tolerate the 
>> constant reading/writing of a Windows swap file, by having 
>> the drive include a control command that spreads the 
>> reads/writes across the entire device, which is why a delete 
>> on a current SSD is even less of a delete than on a standard 
>> platter HD.
>> 
>> Still, every time you use a PC with a standard SSD or even 
>> leave it up and running, any application that reads/writes 
>> periodically to the drive is inching the drive ever closer to 
>> its "Death" where you can only read and no longer write to the drive.
>> 
>> From what I have been reading, the DRAM based PCI-E SSDs do 
>> not suffer this problem and (in the case of the "drive" I 
>> have linked) have meantimes BETWEEN failures measured in the 
>> 2 million hours of regular use. That's roughly 51 years. A 
>> Flash based SSD, from what I understand, simply cannot label 
>> itself as being able to be read/written to for 51 years 
>> without hitting that ceiling.
>> 
>> The only problem that traditionally follows this form of Hard 
>> Drive is the price. For a 960GB model, the pricing is upwards 
>> of $4,000 and that is for what OCZ calls the "Enthusiast" 
>> model line, not the workstation or data center version of 
>> these devices. One would have to be one helluva enthusiast 
>> with deep pockets to enthuse that much, even then, there is 
>> likely better things to spend money on... (Like a second 
>> Lambo or Ferrari for daily
>> driving...)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Rob
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
>>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Dan Pritts
>>> Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 11:52 AM
>>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Opinions - Should this be the core of my next 
>>> desktop
>>> 
>>> It looks like a very nice solution, although it seems like 
>> a hassle to 
>>> use that instead of just a SATA drive.  Odds are pretty 
>> good you won't 
>>> saturate sata 6Gbps, altough i guess with photoshop swap files it's 
>>> possible.
>>> 
>>> It also looks like the device isn't actually much faster 
>> than 6Gbps.  
>>> 700MBps = 5600Mbps.  I don't know what real-world throughput on 6g 
>>> sata really is, that surely affects the calculation.
>>> 
>>> I do not see where it says that it's DRAM based?  If it were i'd 
>>> expect it to be a lot faster on reads.
>>> 
>>> In my (limited) experience Windows doesn't seem to actually use the 
>>> swap file if you have enough memory.
>>> 
>>> Note also that the SSD makers known darn well that people will be 
>>> putting windows swap files on these things, and they have to be 
>>> engineered to tolerate it.
>>> 
>>> I guess you could also just put your swap file on a dedicated 
>>> partition on a hard disk, but that seems nuts to me; 
>> windows won't use 
>>> it that much under normal circumstances, and if it DOES use it then 
>>> you sure want it to be on fast storage.
>>> 
>>> On Sep 12, 2011, at 10:51 AM, Robert Adkins II wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah, I've read that is has a mean time between failures of
>>> 51 years
>>>> of 24 hour operations.
>>>> 
>>>> It's DRAM based, so it isn't subject to the death that
>>> every Hard Disk
>>>> form SSD on the market will experience from regular 
>> reading/writing 
>>>> use. I'm really not wanting to use one of stanfard SSDs
>>> since Windows
>>>> will constantly be reading and writing to the drive with
>>> its "impossible to operate without"
>>>> swap file.
>>>> 
>>>> -Rob
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
>>>>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Chris Baldwin
>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 10:11 AM
>>>>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Opinions - Should this be the core 
>> of my next 
>>>>> desktop
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.maximumpc.com/article/reviews/ocz_revodrive_x2_240g
>>>> b_pci_express_ssd_review
>>>>> 
>>>>> There's a review for it, with a link to a list of motherboards 
>>>>> that'll support it. I haven't used it yet, but if it pans
>>> out, this
>>>>> may be my next boot drive. Good luck.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Chris
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 9/12/11 9:56 AM, Robert Adkins II wrote:
>>>>>> It's getting to be about time to upgrade/replace my current
>>>>> desktop at home.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I do a significant amount of gaming on it, as well as
>>> Photoshop and
>>>>>> home finance.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I also have a server for storing and sharing data between
>>> the other
>>>>>> PCs/Laptops in the house.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This time around, I want some speedy, stable, fast and 
>> very quick.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So, I am considering building around this piece of hardware:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>> http://www.ocztechnology.com/ocz-revodrive-x2-pci-express-ssd.html
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Obviously, I need to find a motherboard that will work with
>>>>> this and I
>>>>>> wouldn't mind being able to also use the onboard SATA
>>>>> controllers on
>>>>>> the mainboard to facilitate using a RAID 0 setup for a pair
>>>>> of platter
>>>>>> based Hard Drives for local storage of data. (Basically,
>>> I want to
>>>>>> install applications, like games and when I may want to
>>>>> still play it,
>>>>>> but don't want to bother uninstalling and then
>>>>> reinstalling, I'll just
>>>>>> cut/paste the entire folder for the game to the
>>> traditional HDs and
>>>>>> move them back when I want to use that game again.)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Any opinions on this? There's a 160GB version of this available 
>>>>>> through Amazon.com for less than $300.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Rob
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> mdlug mailing list
>>>>>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>>>>>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> 
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