[mdlug] OT - IR jamming

[Aaron Kulkis]

Dave Arbogast wrote:
> 
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> 
>> This is the type of reasoning that allowed Hitler his ultimate control.
>>
>>> He did not get it over night. He got it piece by piece. The Executive 
>>> branch did not get all this power since 9-11, it has been a building 
>>> process. Right now, it is past the line in the Constitution.
>>>
>>> Cold war or not, Law is Law.
>>>    
>>>
>> Yes, we are a nations of laws, and the law is the law.
>>
>> FISA is for DOMESTIC wiretaps (calls placed within the United
>> States to another location within the United States), and is
>> a necessary
>>
>> The current wiretapping in question are calls placed from
>> external locations.  As I said before, ALL countries have
>> always reserved the right to monitor and even disrupt
>> communications between a party within their borders and
>> another party outside of their borders.
>>
>> In addition, a lot of the calls being monitored are
>> actually from one foreign location to another foreign
>> location, which just happen to be routed through the
>> U.S.  This is allowed under the "search and seizure"
>> clause of the 4th Amendment -- because sovereign
>> country (including the U.S.) has ever considered it to
>> be an "unreasonable search" if Customs officers review
>> any books, papers, recordings, or other communications
>> before allowing them to be brought into the country.
>>
>>  
>>
> Err, it sounds like politics are influencing your reasoning. I don't 
> care if it is Bush or Clinton or Mickey Mouse in the White House, please 
> look at the law...  The fact that wire taps with an American at one end 
> and no FISA or any other court order is the problem. The Law does not 
> say both parties must be American. Where did you ever get that idea ? If 
> both parties are foreign and the communication crosses US equipment, all 
> the more power to who ever wants to intercept it :-)  What I am talking 
> about is not following the Constitution because "The law was outdated".  

yes, the FISA law is outdated.

Monitoring FOREIGN COMMUNICATION is not unconstitutional, and never
will be.

> So, if the original Law has no language about spying on Americans. then 

Nobody is "SPYING ON AMERICANS"

The U.S government reserves the right to intercept foreign
communications.

> simply the Forth Amendment is sufficient - a court order is required.

The fourth amendment says "no UNREASONABLE" searches or seizures.

Monitoring foreign communication is not "unreasonable" -- no court
in ANY nation of the world has ever held it to be so.


The more the left protests about this sort of thing, the more
it makes believe that what they're REALLY worried about is
that it's going to lead to the revelation of how much of their
own domestic actions are coordinated with foreign organizations
who have absolutely no respect for the ideals of the U.S.
Constitution.

That's what this hysteria is really about -- that so many on
the left are, in their hearts...treasonous.

It's one thing to protect your rights.

It's quite another to use those rights in a quest to overthrow
the very system which guarantees your rights.  Leftist ideology
is completely at odds with the very notion of individual rights --
and yet it is only the left which is complaining about supposed
infringements on their individual rights.

Since that completely defies logic, the only conclusion one can
make is that the left is worried about something else..something
which is so damaging, that they cannot openly protest to protect
it, therefore, they are trying to use this bogus canard as a
stalking horse.


> Period.

Really.

Ever heard of the Zimmerman Telegram?

Did the British act wrongfully?