[mdlug] OT - IR jamming

[Aaron Kulkis]

Dave Arbogast wrote:

<snip>

> 
>>> to atomic bombs vaporizing civilians in Japan, putting US citizens in 
>>> prison w/o trial because they had Japanese heritage...  There are more 
>>> examples I am sure.
>>>    
>>>
>> Blame Truman and FDR.
>>
>>  
>>
> NO !!!!!   BLAME OUR FELLOW AMERICANS FOR STANDING FOR IT !!!! Just as 
> some Americans are standing for torture in Cuba now.... And ignoring of 
> FISA and granting the Big Telco's immunity for violation of FISA...
> 
>>> Part of the responsibility of being the only current super power is 
>>> sticking to the rule of law. We have not been in this war - FISA is 
>>> another good example. Safety is of no value when you trample the very 
>>> liberty from tyranny you are combating. The end does not justify the 
>>> means any more for them than it does for us.
>>>    
>>>
>> FISA is a Cold War law, designed with the Cold War's "gentleman's
>> rules" of espionage.
>>
>> The current wiretapping debate has been grossly mischaracterized.
>>
>> The ONLY calls which can be monitored are those originating
>>from overseas...
>> And EVERY country on the planet has always reserved the right
>> to monitor ALL communications passing over the borders -- the
>> lone exception being diplomatic communications (which is the
>> origin of the "diplomatic pouch"... customs and police are
>> specifically prohibited from searching a diplomatic pouch.
>>
>> All other communication which crosses the borders is, and
>> always has been, subject to monitoring.
>>
>>  
>>
> I guess to some the Rule of Law, and not the rule of what the President 
> dictates to be the law, is all that counts. I am sorry if the current 
> laws are not convenient to the Executive branch, but tell me, when did 
> the FISA court ever - EVER - block a wire tap ? :-)  Never. Even post 
> Morton as the law allows for. Never.
> 
> This is the type of reasoning that allowed Hitler his ultimate control. 
> He did not get it over night. He got it piece by piece. The Executive 
> branch did not get all this power since 9-11, it has been a building 
> process. Right now, it is past the line in the Constitution.
> 
> Cold war or not, Law is Law.

Yes, we are a nations of laws, and the law is the law.

FISA is for DOMESTIC wiretaps (calls placed within the United
States to another location within the United States), and is
a necessary

The current wiretapping in question are calls placed from
external locations.  As I said before, ALL countries have
always reserved the right to monitor and even disrupt
communications between a party within their borders and
another party outside of their borders.

In addition, a lot of the calls being monitored are
actually from one foreign location to another foreign
location, which just happen to be routed through the
U.S.  This is allowed under the "search and seizure"
clause of the 4th Amendment -- because sovereign
country (including the U.S.) has ever considered it to
be an "unreasonable search" if Customs officers review
any books, papers, recordings, or other communications
before allowing them to be brought into the country.

In the case of an international wiretap, they're not
even preventing the communication, they are merely
monitoring the cross-border communications.

All of these complaints are just more of the same,
tiresome Bush derangement syndrome by the same sorts
of people who didn't bat an eyelash over the Clinton
administration's Carnivore program -- which DID
specifically target domestic communications between
U.S. citizens, because they viewed the biggest terrorist
threat to the nation to be its own citizens (even while
foreign terrorists were attacking us around the world),
because the White House actually WAS at war with the
American people (Waco, "scary-looking"-guns act) and
siding with the crazies (SWAT team assault on refugee
Elian Gonzalez, so that they could return him to the
island-prison of Cuba... siding with the mass-murdering
gangs of Kosovo after they started to carry out a war
of arson and genocide against the Serbs (think of a
never-ending Kristallnacht accompanied by Dachau all
rolled into one, but without the German fetish for
marching and paperwork).  Those mass graves were
NOT created by Serbian forces...they were full of
Serbian bodies.  The eastern European press was reporting
this as early as 1997, but the American press didn't
get it right until 2007.

At the time that the Air Force was ordered to bomb
Belgrade and Novii Sad, these cities were already
overflowing with refugees who had literally fled their
homes with nothing more than the clothes on their back,
as their homes, businesses, and whatever vehicles they
might have owned were all destroyed (usually through
arson) by their warm, loving, peaceful Muslim neighbors.
The man blamed for all of this is Slobodan Milosovich,
who, contrary to the way the White House portrayed him
as some sort of war-monger, was unusually RESTRAINED.
Liberty magazine had a writer in Poland, who reported
that every day, tens of thousands marched in the streets
of Belgrade urging Milosovich to send the Serbian Army
into the Kosovo region province to protect the Serb
population living there.  This went on for months.
[If one ethnic group in the U.S. were forcibly expelling
another ethnic group from their locality, by means of
burning down neighborhoods and killing all of the adult
males, how many hours would pass before U.S. Army troops
were sent in to put down civil unrest?  I can't imagine
it being more than 96 hours.  Milosovich, the "warmonger"
resisted public demands to defend citizens against an
internal rebellion for far more than 96 DAYS...and yet,
to the Clinton Administration and his buddies, the
European elites, Milosovich was the bad guy in all
of this.  (And for perpetuating the policy of viewing

Why?  Because the Serbs are Orthodox Christian, and
therefore a satisfactory scapegoat for the Clintons,
while the Kosovo populace is Muslim, and therefore
beyond reproach.  Radical Muslim gangs in Kosovo were
practicing the usual "convert-or-die" expansionism
which triggered to the Spanish Inquisition, often
wrongfully typified as a pogram against Jews when
it was in fact an act of defending against Islamic
expansionism by adopting the same policy against
the death-cult.

Sadly, some Jews were caught up in whole affair, but
the Inquisition wasn't about them, it was about the
expansion of Mohammad's death-cult.

Followup sent to the offtopic list.