[mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students

Wed Dec 10 12:03:29 EST 2008

On Wednesday 10 December 08, Michael wrote:
> My wife is a teacher and they rely on Windows computers at school. When she
> started working there they didn't have a decent word processor and so she
> installed Open Office, everyone is thrilled. One of the main reasons that
> the school doesn't do away with with the windows tax is purely because they
> can find support for anything but.
> She is young like me and therefore is asked when it comes to decisions on
> the computer side of things. She is excited by the linux star gazer
> programs and things like Firefox which can be programmed to only allow
> access to certain sites and ad block and the works for enhancing the
> student experience with computers.
>
> I think it would be such an awesome service for a local linux group to get
> together and roll together a Distribution and provide support to a
> classroom. I know distributed upgrades and maintenance is so easy, that
> kind of thing would really save a lot of time. I remember a lot of
> collaboration ideas and backup thoughts from the OLPC that could easily be
> rolled out to computers through out a network.

You have to figure out what the real IT road-blocks are.  I've suggested doing 
something like this two 2 schools and they both come back with a litany of 
Windows programs for which they need a direct cognate; some sort of content 
filtering, like net-nanny, some sort of firewall, anti-virus, 
ActiveDirectory, IE, Flash (before flash on linux was out), Shockwave (after 
flash on linux was out)...  As soon as you suggest a feasible alternative 
product, another "must-have" pops up that delays any serious talks about 
migrating.

The one school which actually got past all the software-hurdles couldn't 
migrate because they got free support from somebody who only knew MS, and I 
wouldn't provide free hardware and software support.

> This has been an idea I have had for the last year or so and really think
> that linux could make a huge push in schools where they are paying
> thousands of dollars a year for support and limiting student's access to
> computers due to spyware and the accidental porn site that kids/teachers
> tend to figure out the fastest possible way to navigate to.
>
> I would be really interested to get together with some tech savvy people
> and possibly roll together a mock plan if a group were to want to
> support/roll out software to elementary schools/classrooms. I don't know if
> it is feasible; if people have the time to do something like this, but we
> all know the benefits of linux and there is something to be said for
> volunteering for our young people to have greater access to information.

I don't think it would be truly feasible to have a group of volunteers manage 
a school's network.  At some point, somebody has to be by a phone to help 
with real problems.  If a local school system were to transfer the software 
licensing fees to an individual, or group of individuals for a 24/7 support 
contract, I don't think there would be any road blocks to a school using 
linux on their networks.

In my experience, the only roadblock to schools using open source is their 
inability, or unwillingness, to pay for support.  They'll gladly pay software 
licensing fees up front with no questions about how the closed source 
software works and then ask for free support when it breaks. But, they flip 
side I have yet to see... use free products and pay for support.  The usual 
story is because they don't have it in their budget... the budget is already 
full of licensing costs.

It's the classic argument of spend your budget locally on local experts... 
keep money in the state instead of sending it to Redmond... it's a win win 
for everybody.

That's just my experience trying to knock on doors and get schools to switch 
to Linux.

I have a real hard time believing that schools do a lot of real research on 
open source.  I used to go to OU and they migrated from blackboard to moodle 
while i was attending classes there.  I never got a call about logicampus.  
Even though there is only a short list of about 5 open source campus learning 
programs, and the developer of one was attending school at their own 
institution, I never got a call or an e-mail.

> Well that is my idea. It might be like the bulk of them and go nowhere, but
> I really feel sorry for kids who are only allowed to go in the computer
> with the teacher looking over their shoulder and feel like there is so much
> that we could do to help out.

As long as schools stay at arm's length from open source, neither your idea 
nor their institutions will go anywhere interesting.

> My 2c,
>
> Michael
>
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Mark Kimsal <mark at metrofindings.com>wrote:
> > On Wednesday 10 December 08, R. Kannan wrote:
> > > A few comments on this article seem to indicate that this story is made
> >
> > up.
> >
> > > I cannot believe such stupidity exists among our teachers. Has the
> > > author of the story been proven to be not credible in the past?
> >
> > Hah, you can tell it's 100% made up because there's a Windows users who
> > thinks
> > operating systems cost money.  The majority of technically under-educated
> > people I know have no clue how much Windows costs, that you can buy it
> > from the store, or that it is even separable from a computer.  POST
> > tests, BIOS screens, boot logos and desktops all kind of blur together to
> > make "the computer".
> >
> > The level of technical competence expressed by the teacher in question
> > tips their hand too much.  A person with that much computer knowledge has
> > probably
> > heard of free (even discounting Free) software.
> >
> > Basically, if you start throwing around the word "operating system", you
> > can't
> > be so out-of-it as to not have heard of Linux/FOSS.  The situation loses
> > a lot of credibility with me at that point.
> >
> > Add in the end of the letter, which suggests begging MS for old copies of
> > Windows (which there's no way you could get even if you tried to pay for
> > them), and you get a pretty poorly made up story... at least it seems
> > that way to me.
> >
> >
> > On a related note... would confiscating all the CDs constitute a DoS
> > attack on
> > the kid's software?
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >
> > > >From: - <otakurider at gmail.com>
> > > >Sent: Dec 10, 2008 7:54 AM
> > > >To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> > > >Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
> > > >
> > > >This may be already know but it was a interesting read - base link
> > > > from slashdot and digg
> >
> > http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.ht
> >m
> >
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Mark Kimsal
http://biz.metrofindings.com/
fax: 866-375-1590