[mdlug-discuss] [mdlug] Oil (was: First impressions of Vista)

[Ingles, Raymond]

> From: Aaron Kulkis

> Yes, it would have been MUCH cheaper to just BUY IT....even in
> the beginning when the Iraqi army just collapsed...invading would
> have been a very expensive way to acquire oil (even without the
> political fall-out).

 They weren't just looking for X barrels. They were looking to establish
US dominance over the Middle East, and Iraq was a stepping stone to that.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

 The people involved in that, like Rumsfeld, were deeply involved in
planning (such as there was) for the war in Iraq. It's now clear that
none of the rationales given for the war - WOMAD, ties to Al Quaeda,
etc. - were true, nor were they supported by credible intel.

 According to retired General Wesley Clark:

 http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/02/1440234

"About ten days after 9/11, I went through the Pentagon and I saw
Secretary Rumsfeld and Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz. I went downstairs
just to say hello to some of the people on the Joint Staff who used
to work for me, and one of the generals called me in. He said, 'Sir,
you've got to come in and talk to me a second.' I said, 'Well, you're
too busy.' He said, 'No, no.' He says, 'We've made the decision we're
going to war with Iraq.' This was on or about the 20th of September.
I said, 'We're going to war with Iraq? Why?' He said, 'I don't know.'
He said, 'I guess they don't know what else to do.' So I said, 'Well,
did they find some information connecting Saddam to al-Qaeda?' He said,
'No, no.' He says, 'There's nothing new that way. They just made the
decision to go to war with Iraq.' He said, 'I guess it's like we don't
know what to do about terrorists, but we've got a good military and we
can take down governments.' And he said, 'I guess if the only tool you
have is a hammer, every problem has to look like a nail.'

So I came back to see him a few weeks later, and by that time we were
bombing in Afghanistan. I said, 'Are we still going to war with Iraq?'
And he said, 'Oh, it's worse than that.' He reached over on his desk.
He picked up a piece of paper. And he said, 'I just got this down from
upstairs' -- meaning the Secretary of Defense's office -- 'today.' And
he said, 'This is a memo that describes how we're going to take out
seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria,
Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.' I said, 'Is
it classified?' He said, 'Yes, sir.' I said, 'Well, don't show it to me.'
And I saw him a year or so ago, and I said, 'You remember that?' He said,
'Sir, I didn't show you that memo! I didn't show it to you!'"

 Confirmation here:

 http://www.utne.com/web_special/web_specials_2003-08/articles/10739-1.html

 It's about oil, but not Iraq's oil specifically. It's about us owning
a Middle East country and being able to project power in the region.
Not a bad goal per se, but shortsighted in the extreme. It makes us a
target for resistance and retaliation. It costs boatloads of billions
of dollars. (And it's also *not* what the U.S. citizenry were told the
goal was. If they want to vote to pursue that, fine - but this war was
sold on false pretenses, because they couldn't sell such a goal. See
"http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10164478/".)

 Now, the more economical and safer way is to reduce our dependency on
their oil so we don't need them as much, and then they don't have power
over us. But so far as I can tell, the people running things don't have
the imagination or the balls to pursue such a course. They only think
in military terms - they have that hammer, so everything must be
treated as a nail.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                           (313) 227-2317

 "Our answer to al Qaeda shouldn't be to restrict our own liberties.
         It should be to restrict theirs." - J. Pournelle
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